Raymond Khoury - Interview about The Last Templar

Author Interview
By Lars Schafft

Your debut novel, The Last Templar, is a thriller with a powerful religious mystery at its core. Are you religious?
I wouldn't describe myself as being particularly religious, especially not when it comes to the formalities and rigid dogma of the Church. I was brought up in a Catholic household, but my parents weren't big church-goers and although I did attend religious studies and was confirmed as a child, I suppose the experiences didn't really connect with me, and I haven't attended mass since those days.

What led you combine a contemporary thriller with a medieval adventure based on the demise of the Templars?
When I set out to create my story, I was interested in writing a thriller that delved into the mysteries of the Templars, but I wanted it to take place in a contemporary setting. I felt that the story had a lot to say, a lot that would be relevant to the times we live in, and so I never really considered writing a novel set entirely in the past. The two stories - the main, present day adventure that kicks off in Manhattan, and the chapters that flash back to the "last templar"'s story, set in the closing stages of the 13th century, came together organically, interconnecting the modern investigation with what happened back then.

Initially, the parts set in the past were much more brief, but the more I wrote, the more Martin, Aimard and the rest of the Templars came alive, I was hooked on their struggle and kept wanting to explore their story in more detail. I have to say I really enjoyed writing in two separate eras, and I think it helps make the story much more epic, and hopefully more resonant, to our readers.

What was it about the Templars that attracted you?
The Templars' missing treasure is one of the great hooks of history, and as I got deeper into my story, it became clear that this premise presented the opportunity to do much more than just write a conventional thriller: it allowed me to present some widely overlooked, but historically accurate and possibly unsettling information relating to the early days of the Church, and in particular, how the Bible was actually put together; and by opening that door, it allowed the characters in the story, and by extension, its readers, to explore their own faith - or lack of it - and, consequently, the effects - good or bad - of religion on the world today, which may not be a bad thing at a time when spirituality is being hijacked and polarized across the planet.

Talking of 'readers', your main career is in screenwriting. What made you want to write this as a novel, instead of a screenplay?
Actually, The Last Templar started life as a screenplay. It was the third screenplay I ever wrote, back in 1996, when I was first starting out. I didn't have an agent at the time, I hadn't sold anything. I had just finished writing a small, semi autobiographical screenplay, and I felt like writing something more epic. It took me a year and a half to write the screenplay of The Last Templar, as it involved a lot of research, and when I finished it, a friend of mine read it and thought it would make a great novel. I agreed wholeheartedly, as you can't really delve deeply into the issues at the core of the story in a movie, even less so in a mainstream movie, as this was intended to be. So my friend gave it to a book agent here in London and a few months later, I was flown to New York to meet with one of the biggest publishers in the US, who had offered a huge advance for a book based on the screenplay.

I was in seventh heaven: their plans for the book were very flattering, they wanted to buy the film rights, it was all a writer's dream come true, until, half an hour into the meeting, the publisher casually mentioned a small caveat: "Oh, and you know, all that stuff about religion? Let's lose that. Let's turn it into a hunt for treasure, you know, gold, jewels, that kind of thing." I was stunned. The whole core of the book, its heart and soul, would be gone. I had put so much into writing it, it was a huge part of my life, and I couldn't see the interest in the story they were proposing. I was under a lot of pressure to accept the deal that was on the table, I hadn't yet sold a single dollar's worth of writing, it was a very tough few days. But I couldn't do it, and I said no. No other publishers were approached, and I came home to London, thinking of other careers... but one of the UK's top film producers, Eric Fellner of Working Title, had managed to get hold of my screenplay, read it, and although he didn't buy it (it was too big and too controversial for them at that stage of their careers), he called me and told me to let him know if I wanted to write anything else.

I ended up selling them several original screenplays and working with directors to try and get them into production, my screenwriting career was up and running, but all that time, The Last Templar was sitting there on my shelf, waiting for its day. And every few months, someone would call up out of the blue and ask about it. Finally, in 1999, I joined the William Morris Agency, and the book agent there, Eugenie Furniss, read the screenplay, and told me. "You have to write that book, it'll make a wonderful novel. Just sit down and do it. I know you can do it." To her endless credit, she kept calling me every few months, asking me if I'd started, and in September 2002, after writing a long television project and feeling I was now ready to do it, I started writing my first novel. Which was very different, and far more satisfying, than anything I'd ever done.

In between, a man by the name of Dan Brown published two books which, at first glance, are thematically quite similar, both world bestsellers. Do you know them?
I have indeed heard of Mr Brown's books! Well, what can I say... his publishers clearly had a better instinct for what people wanted to read! But who knows, maybe he did have to sit though some meeting where a publisher told him, "You know, Dan, we love your book, but all that stuff about Jesus having kids with Mary Magdalene... let's lose that. Let's turn it into the hunt for a diamond the size of a baseball!" But seriously... I've read his books, I'm definitely a fan, I really enjoyed "The Da Vinci Code", which came out while I was finishing my book. I think its success is entirely deserved, and I'm very much looking forward to his next book.

That said, while I'm flattered by the association, The Last Templar and The Da Vinci Code are very different books, and in a way, the success of his book will have helped inspire a curiosity in readers around the world for the subject matter we're exploring, which could help readers discover The Last Templar. And you know, the honest truth is that I don't think I was ready to write my story as a novel ten years ago. I was only starting to find my feet as a screenwriter, and apart from gaining the storytelling experience I needed, writing a novel is a very different craft. I don't think it would have been as complete, or had the success it's having, which is something I'm hugely proud of. I really couldn't be happier with the way things have turned out.

I gather you've been an architect and a screenwriter, and that you live with your family in London. Is there a common ground between your previous work and being a novelist? And where is the focus in your life?
Well, writing has been the total focus of my life ever since I started writing about ten years ago, and it's not something you ever turn off. I was just having a chat with a writer friend, we were joking about taking time off and the truth is that as a writer, I don't think you ever switch off. You're always working on an idea, developing something in your mind, whether it's for a specific project that you've been commissioned to write like a pilot for a new television series I'm working on right now, or something that's more vague, a rough idea that's seeded its way into your head that you're nurturing and growing.

Oddly enough, I found many similarities, conceptually, between architecture and screenwriting. In both fields, you're trying to create something fresh and original that fits the parameters, the constraints you're working under, whether it's a client's house that the client's going to live in, or an episode of a television series or a screenplay for a movie that have budget and production limits. You're solving a creative puzzle in both: making sure everything works structurally (because screenplays of Hollywood movies and TV shows do follow a structure, some more than others), making sure the overall design is balanced and fulfilling. They're also both crafts that one is always improving at. When I set out to become an architect, part of what appealed to me was that it's something you can keep on doing until you die, you keep getting better at it and learning new things the longer you do it. I think it's the same with writing.

Writing a novel, though, is different. I think it's more like being a painter. You're much freer in what you do, there are no compromises necessary, no rules to follow, no production partners or clients to please. It's much more selfish, but in a good way, you're writing for yourself, writing what you feel like writing, what you're inspired by... If you want to, say, keep in "the religion", you can! And all you can do is hope people respond to what you've written... For now, though, my main focus is on my next book. I enjoyed writing The Last Templar so much, and the reaction to it has been so fantastic, that I'm desperate to start work on my next one.

You mentioned doing a lot of research for the book, which takes place in different parts of the globe. Have you been to all the places that Tess and Sean, and the Templars, travelled to?
I went to high school in New York and lived there for two years, and visit friends there a lot, so I know it really well. In fact, the town where Tess lives is right next door to where I lived. And a very close friend of the family was an archaeologist working in the city. As for the other locations... without wanting to give away too much about the book, I can tell you I'm a big fan of and a regular traveller to the Greek islands and that general area of the Mediterranean... but I must confess I haven't been to Acre.

What about the rest of the research: Books? Experts? And how long did it take?
I actually had to research it twice. Once when I wrote the screenplay, and again when I started writing the novel, which took two years to write. The thing about a novel is that you can't take the shortcuts you would take in a screenplay. You want to know everything about what you're writing, you have to, otherwise it doesn't feel right. Take the cemetery scene, for instance: in the screenplay, you would just write "EXT (Exterior) - Cemetery - Day", and describe what you need from the setting in terms of location or mood, not more than a few words, nothing too specific unless the story specifically calls for it, and that's it. The director, location manager and production designer would then choose the best spot to actually shoot it in. In the book, I probably spent a week researching which cemetery to use: which one is appropriate, where is it, how would Tess get to it from her office, what does it look like, how does one get in, what does it feel like to walk through it at that time of day in that time of year, etc... This was using the internet, followed by phone calls to several cemeteries in New York to get more specific information I needed. It was so different this time, though, compared to ten years ago, before the internet. Back then, it was about lots of visits to the library, going through tons of books, as well as talking to experts, in medicine for example and in forensics. With the internet, now, there's so much information readily available, it's an incredible writer's tool. Either way, it's great fun - to learn, to explore, to discover.

And just how important is that authenticity? In general, for a thriller, and specifically, for 'The Last Templar'?
My feeling is that when I'm reading something - and it's usually thrillers, I love Harlan Coben, Michael Connelly and Nelson DeMille, although I'm now reading Carlos Ruiz Zafon's The Shadow of the Wind which is a great, great book - I can sense whether or not the author really knows what he's talking about, and it does make a difference, to me anyway. How important is it to get all the details right? Somehow, I find that going to the trouble to get things right really helps me with the writing. It draws me in more when I'm writing it, I feel I'm really living it, which heightens the visceral and emotional kick I feel and hopefully makes it onto the page. In The Last Templar, though, there were two 'authenticities' to strive for: one was for the realism in the settings and the detail, whether it's the cemetery or what kind of ships the Turkish Coast Guard use (oops!), as we've been talking about. The other is the historical detail. And in a novel like this, the historic authenticity is vital. Whether it's describing the battle at Acre or setting out to sea in the Falcon Temple, or describing the history at the core of the story, relating to the early days of the Catholic Church and the discoveries made since that time, making sure everything is historically accurate was, to me, a must. Of course, it's a fiction thriller, so the plot at its core - what the Templars were really doing in Jerusalem, the decoder - that's mine. But everything else about the Templars and the history of the Church is historically true.

So your Templar characters, such as Aimard of Villiers, Martin of Carmaux, and Jacques de Molay - are they real? And if so, how did you find out about them?
Jacques de Molay is real - he was the last Grand Master of the Order, and he was burnt at the stake in Paris in 1314, as described in the book. The king of France and the Pope were there, watching, and he cursed them from the pyre, telling them they'd soon be facing God's judgement by his side. They both died within months. Martin and Aimard, though, are fictional characters I created, using my research into the knights of the era.

Is there anything in the Templars' real history that corresponds to the object, the 'treasure,' desperately sought by the characters in your book?
What is widely accepted is this: that the Templars did spend many years cloistered in the huge quarters they were given, which stood on the remains of King Solomon's temple, when they were supposed to be out there escorting the pilgrims from the ports of the holy land to Jerusalem; and that their great wealth, their treasure, was never recovered.

Why do you think ancient secret societies are such a hot topic nowadays?
I think there's a general yearning out there for myth and legend - science has done a lot for us, but one side effect of that is that it's helped take out a lot of the magic and mystery of the world around us, and I think we miss that. Similarly, I think there's also a yearning for something more fulfilling spiritually, and part of that search is manifested through exploring the hidden secrets of our past.

Let's talk about the characters you've created in the book. It seemed to me that Tess - unusually for this kind of thriller, a female lead - is the stronger one of the two main protagonists, whereas I found Sean to be kind of weak despite being an FBI agent. Do you agree?
It's interesting that you perceived Sean as the weaker of the two. He's certainly not an in-your-face, hard as nails, 'noir' hero. Tess is the more overtly driven one: her career, her father's towering presence, her divorce. She has an energy and a presence that makes itself felt very quickly, she's exploding with ambition and curiosity. Sean is more reserved, more thoughtful, but I don't think that makes him weak. He carries a lot of pressure on his shoulders, whether it's from his past or from what he gets exposed to on a daily basis as an FBI counter-terrorism agent. He lives in a darker place than Tess, so he needs to find a balance in his life. But he thinks things through, he's less prone to diving into things (metaphorically as well as literally - sorry for the pun), which is something Tess inspires in him and changes in him as they spend more time together, I think they help each other grow in the story. But when he needs to be tough and heroic, he is. The boat scene was interesting to construct, in that sense. I like to think he's very human. But the fact that he's religious, in our world, already paints him in a certain softer light, which is interesting to me.

Do you like one of them more than the other?
I'm not sure I do, although I do have a soft spot for Tess. I'd certainly love to meet her more than Sean, but then most guys would say that, wouldn't they?

Sean experienced the impacts of 9/11 directly, as an FBI agent. How relevant is 9/11 for your story? And what does it mean to you personally?
9/11 is very relevant to the story, because although the causes behind it are, in my opinion, rooted in a political struggle that's been taking place in the Middle East for over 50 years, it wouldn't have been possible without the manipulative power of religion and the rise of fundamentalism, on all sides of the conflict. Tribal and political conflicts are being heightened by religious extremists as they have been before, many times throughout history, all over the planet, and ultimately that's what the book's really about: has the world been a better place because of religion, or would we have been better off without it? It's a very tough question. For me personally, 9/11 made the world a much less pleasant place to live. These raging hatreds are only getting worse, none of the sides involved seem to have the visionary leadership to deal with this conflict in a constructive way, and when you have small children, as I do, it doesn't inspire much confidence in the future...

So, in your opinion, are we better off with or without religion?
I don't think there's an easy answer to that question, either way. We need religion, in the sense that we need to believe in something. It's a basic human need. But I think all the big religions are now very different to what their founders originally intended. It's natural: they've become global institutions, and human nature has taken over. You know, on that front, I don't really think we've evolved that much since the days of the crusades. We're still essentially tribal and greedy, we lust for land and power. But to attain these goals, religion is being used as a manipulative tool, for all kinds of agendas that are hardly spiritual. It's used to motivate people to do all kinds of things that are far from charitable. It's used as an excuse to justify wars and terrorism, it's enslaving people and limiting their personal freedoms and advancement, it's blocking scientific advances... That's not what religion is meant to be. On the other hand, it provides hope and inner strength to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Which, I think, is what it should all be about.

But I do find it shocking that, in this supposedly enlightened day and age, a massively significant amount of people all over the planet can behave in the most indecent way towards others, all because they hang on every word of religious documents whose real origins they know little about, and that were written thousands of years ago, at a time when the world was a very, very different place. In my book, I've tried to explore the history of one of the planet's big religions, in an effort to lay out the widely overlooked origin of the Church and perhaps inspire a broader curiosity about other religions and how they came to be.

What about the 'less charitable' characters in your book? Without giving away too much of the story - is there one of them you can empathize with, or relate to?
It's a tough question to answer without revealing some turning points in the book. Let's just say one of them I do empathize with, and the others not. You've read the book, so I'm sure you know who I'm talking about!

You mentioned that you're now writing the screenplay for The Last Templar. Do you have any actors in mind for Tess and Sean?
I'm working on turning the book into a four hour, two night television event for NBC, rather than a movie. There's a lot in the book and doing it this way will allow us not to lose anything from the original story. Also, films are so hard to set up, many bestsellers are bought by the studios and never end up getting made, because the economics of making event movies have become so prohibitive. As for actors, I've been a fan of Lost since it came out and Matthew Fox has become such a huge star, I think he has the strength of will as well as the vulnerability of Sean. For Tess... the list is very long! I don't know if you saw Red Eye or The Wedding Crashers, but I thought Rachel McAdams was wonderful in both.

One final question: Will we get to hear from Tess and Sean again?
I'd love to write about them again, I've grown very fond of them... but I think, for the time being, I'll leave them alone and let them enjoy some quality time together. They've been through enough, don't you think?